This Generation's Star Wars

[Tom Foolery]

This topic is interesting enough for its own thread. Clicking on some of those links led me to a lively forum debate on what actually IS "this Generation's" Star Wars.

I think you'd first have to define what people mean when they refer to Star Wars in that context. For me it'd be a cultural zeitgeist of immense popularity. I think the Sci-Fi aspect is minimal to the grander theme and awareness. Although most TV ads and critic's blurbs announcing the next summer blockbuster as "the next Star Wars" are usually Sci-Fi films (Avatar, John Carter, Pacific Rim, etc ad nauseum), the Sci-Fi of the original SW was really only a veneer on a much broader Hero's Journey theme. But we all know this and the origin's of Lucas' intent so I won't belabor the obvious here.

Based on some of the arguments in that other forum, I'd argue Harry Potter is the Star Wars of the 21st Century generation. It's become a cultural phenomenon for kids much in the same way SW was for kids of the 70s and 80s. And it's not just the films, but the books as well. I'd say 96% of kids born after 1990 have read the Harry Potter books. Probably even more than that. So, in terms of the right elements congealing at the right moment in the collective pop culture consciousness, HP fills that bill nicely.

Another argument was made for LOTR. While I agree it had a huge impact, I feel more like its the SW for the Baby Boomer generation, rather than the Gen X and Y crowds. The books had immense popularity in the pre-SW era. And I felt like the films filled the void that the Prequels promised and then failed to deliver. In that sense, they are the adult SW for the SW generation. All the SW kids had grown up and were expecting their SW Prequels to mature with them and they didn't. So LOTR filled that void of intelligent, mature adventure that the Prequels lacked. But even so, it's like splitting the cultural phenomenon between the 50s/60s when the books came out (and the decades of gestating popularity after) and the resurgence of the film trilogy. That's not really a fair comparison to either the phenomenon of Star Wars OR Harry Potter.

Others mentioned Nolan's Batman trilogy. Again, apart from not even reaching the heights of popularity of SW and HP, it's not fair to compare Comic films which have had decades to develop a fan base. Batman(and super heroes in general) have been an underlying cultural icon theme for 70+ years. He (and they) have had swells, the TV series in the 60s, Batmania in 1989 etc, so it's not as if Batman all of the sudden entered the lexicon in 2005. The same goes for the Marvel films. While undeniably popular, it didn't happen overnight. It took 50 years of steady trudging towards The Avengers film becoming a hit.

Everything else falls short. Whether its Avatar or the Matrix or whatever. Most comparisons fall laughably short in hindsight. Such as Titan AE.

The only other film I can think of which comes close to Star Wars, in purely film narrative terms of frenetic non stop energy and amusing characters, is the original Pirates film. It certainly doesn't match SW or HP in terms of the cultural impact. But as a film, its the most memorable in terms of the spirit of the original Star Wars. And it's about as far from Sci-Fi as you can get.


Thoughts?

[anarky]

Going with Harry Potter. There's also the argument it's supposedly for kids, but adults like it, and they're deceptively simple in that you could write a fucking master's thesis on the allusions and symbolism in either one.

[Ran]

I think I buy your arguement for Harry Potter. Even though someone never read the books or saw the movies (like me), they know what it is basically about. It seemed to have an impact on culture in general. It was new, like Star Wars, and unlike LOTR and the various superhero movies.

Now, if the definition of "this generation's Star Wars" includes special effects and technology, I suppose Avatar could be mentioned, but it didn't have longevity Harry Potter and Star Wars have.

[Tom Foolery]

Another interesting thing to point out. it's probably harder to define "this generation's" Star Wars because there are so many choices to choose from. Whereas, in 1977, there was nothing to compare the phenomenon that was Star Wars to. It was wholely unique. There was ONLY Star Wars. I think you'd have to go back to 1938 when Superman become popular to come close to how huge Star Wars was. Or perhaps James Bond in the 60s. But again, those weren't close to the immense popularity of Star Wars. They were more precursors, indicating the possibility that something would eventually explode the way SW did. Even things like Star Trek were more cult-y at the time, and less phenomical.

But after Star Wars, more and more things started entering the pop culture and gestating. Star Wars kids began craving "new" things to keep that SW euphoria going. Things like GIJoe, Transformers, D&D, TMNT, etc. And by the time the next generation had rolled around, they had not only Star Wars to choose from, but all these other properties as well. And even more beyond that, all manner of Video Games like Tomb Raider, HALO, GTA, Assassins Creed, as well as games like Pokemon, etc. or books series like Harry Potter, Twilight, Hunger Games, Percy Jackson etc. TV shows. Films. Toy Lines. Cartoons.

Where we had ONE phenomenon, their pop culture identity has been diluted by hundreds of brands and concepts. All piled on top of each other. It's next to impossible for one to rise to the top.

[Diabolical]

I think Star Wars is this generation's Star Wars.
Sure, the internet hated the prequels, but they spawned a new generation of young Star Wars fans that got into the originals via the prequels. The Special Editions did the same thing to the kids born after 1983.

Outside of Star Wars, I would agree the closest thing would be Harry Potter, but I don't see HP permeating as deeply into the collective consciousness as SW has. Harry Potter is essentially the books and the movies (right?), where Star Wars is on damn near everything. The only thing HP has over SW is it's own theme park (so far), which I was kind of baffled by when they announced it, as I didn't think HP would have that long of a shelf life with no new books or movies.

[vynsane]

The only thing HP has over SW is it's own theme park (so far), which I was kind of baffled by when they announced it, as I didn't think HP would have that long of a shelf life with no new books or movies.

believe it or not there are people out there who are baffled by the shelf life that Star Wars has garnered. at this point there are probably just as many people gearing up to introduce the next generation to HP as SW. i know i'm doing my part on both fronts.

[Tom Foolery]

One could argue those kids who got into Star Wars because of the Prequels, actually got into SW because of their parents, who themselves were the original SW Generation. The OT's cultural impact did a lot of the heavy lifting in making the Prequel Trilogy as popular as it is/was. The Spec Eds had been released in the three previous years ramping up to TPM and Merchandising for the OT had a resurgence as early as whenever the Thrawn books come out and definitely by 1995 when Kenner/Hasbro started putting out new figures and Lucas put out the HiDef VHS. That's not the next Gen's Star Wars. That's the previous Gen sharing their childhood with their kids.


I think most of us here are definitely in that GenX category. Señor JJL is right on the cusp(for argument sake I put the cutoff at 1990, and he was an infant/toddler at the time. So his earliest memories are presumably post-1990). I suppose we could ask our kids/younger siblings their opinion. But the drawback there is they don't have the original perception of Star Wars mania to compare it to. They can only speculate based on what others tell them or what they read/hear/see in documentaries. Which isn't the same. Much like none of us know what Beatlemania was actually like. Or the euphoria of the Moon Landing in real time.
But it would still be interesting to hear their opinions.

[Negative Boy]

Much like none of us know what Beatlemania was actually like.Or the euphoria of the Moon Landing in real time.

At which point I recall JJReason grumbling something under his breath along the lines of "Those damn hippie Limey punks." or somesuch and then turning back to cranking his Victrola.

[Ran]

The only thing HP has over SW is it's own theme park (so far), which I was kind of baffled by when they announced it, as I didn't think HP would have that long of a shelf life with no new books or movies.

believe it or not there are people out there who are baffled by the shelf life that Star Wars has garnered. at this point there are probably just as many people gearing up to introduce the next generation to HP as SW. i know i'm doing my part on both fronts.

You have a point there. When my wife was pregnant with our first kid, my mom suggested the name "Luke" if it was a boy. I immediately said no. She asked "why not?" I told her because of Star Wars. She said. "Oh, no one ever thinks about that movie anymore." And that was right between the releases of Episodes I and II.

[Tom Foolery]

I asked my 15 year old daughter and she made a couple interesting points. First, you say Star Wars to a kid today and they don't think OT or Prequels. They think Clone Wars. And second, she pointed out that people are more interested in seeing the familiar, not anything original. Which is why stuff like Transformers and Star Wars is more popular than other things.

And she asked her stepdad, whom I believe is mid-20s in age. He said Harry Potter also. But he said the difference between SW and HP is that HP is a finite story and is at this point complete and contained. Whereas SW is perpetual and constantly finding new outlets for stories. Now, that might change. At some point JKRowling might get the urge to buy Ireland and turn it into a vacation spot, so she'll whip out a few more books. But as of right now, the circle is closed on Potter. And it's quite the opposite for Star Wars.

[Senor JabbaJohnL]

And she asked her stepdad, whom I believe is mid-20s in age. He said Harry Potter also. But he said the difference between SW and HP is that HP is a finite story and is at this point complete and contained. Whereas SW is perpetual and constantly finding new outlets for stories. Now, that might change. At some point JKRowling might get the urge to buy Ireland and turn it into a vacation spot, so she'll whip out a few more books. But as of right now, the circle is closed on Potter. And it's quite the opposite for Star Wars.

I agree that Harry Potter is probably the best non-Star Wars choice and that this has several caveats. Now that the movies and books are all completely done, and there isn't anything like the EU for it (sure, there were a few in-universe books published, but they were for pre-existing fans and certainly weren't as popular as the main series), it seems to have dropped off significantly in popularity. I was a huge fan when they were coming out, but now that there's nothing to look forward to, it seems that its time has come and gone. The content is all still very solid, though.

Where we had ONE phenomenon, their pop culture identity has been diluted by hundreds of brands and concepts. All piled on top of each other. It's next to impossible for one to rise to the top.

Yup. And with several huge movies coming out every weekend in the summer and only slightly less often through the rest of the year, it's just on from one thing to the next.

One could argue those kids who got into Star Wars because of the Prequels, actually got into SW because of their parents, who themselves were the original SW Generation. The OT's cultural impact did a lot of the heavy lifting in making the Prequel Trilogy as popular as it is/was. The Spec Eds had been released in the three previous years ramping up to TPM and Merchandising for the OT had a resurgence as early as whenever the Thrawn books come out and definitely by 1995 when Kenner/Hasbro started putting out new figures and Lucas put out the HiDef VHS. That's not the next Gen's Star Wars. That's the previous Gen sharing their childhood with their kids.


I think most of us here are definitely in that GenX category. Señor JJL is right on the cusp(for argument sake I put the cutoff at 1990, and he was an infant/toddler at the time. So his earliest memories are presumably post-1990). I suppose we could ask our kids/younger siblings their opinion. But the drawback there is they don't have the original perception of Star Wars mania to compare it to. They can only speculate based on what others tell them or what they read/hear/see in documentaries. Which isn't the same. Much like none of us know what Beatlemania was actually like. Or the euphoria of the Moon Landing in real time.
But it would still be interesting to hear their opinions.

I was born December 1, 1989, so I was in the '80s for barely a month before I got the hell out. Growing up, I was only vaguely aware of Star Wars, and one of my friends was a fan of them on VHS, so while I didn't see it before the theater I did know a little about it. My parents' first date was seeing Star Wars in 1977 so they took me and my sisters to see the Special Editions when I was 7. My parents weren't hardcore fans or anything but just wanted to share it with us. My fandom was certainly nurtured by looking at reference books and magazines, getting the toys, and just learning more and more about the movies and all the cool stuff within them. TPM only came out two years later, so I didn't have to wait long, and maybe that's part of why I'm more accepting of all six films as a whole than people who had to wait 16 years between trilogies. But I definitely remember the frenzied anticipation and seeing Star Wars everywhere you looked.

I think part of what keeps Star Wars popular is that there are just so many damn corners to explore, both in-universe and in the real world. In-universe, you've got elements of religion, philosophy, samurai, Westerns, and everything from bounty hunters to space battles to fuzzy little murderous teddy bear people. In the real world, there are action figures, high-end collectibles, comics, novels, TV shows, video games, and ample fodder for fan activities like costuming or making fan films. If you don't care about Sith lords, look over here at the clone troopers! Maybe Rebel pilots are more your thing - well, they have their own video games, books, and comics to keep you entertained. It's so mind-numbingly broad that it's able to capture a lot of different people with different interests.

[Tom Foolery]

Damn, you were even younger than I thought when you started posting at The other site. For some reason I thought you were 15 or 14 at the very outside.

Ironically, you were probably older when you saw the OT than many of us. I saw the OT films when I was 3, 6, and 9. And my love of the films was definitely informed by the toys almost as much as the movies themselves. We didn't have Home Video back then. You saw the film once(maybe twice if you were lucky). The rest was pure memory and imagination. Supplemented by those storybooks and 45 rpm records, illustrated picture books and the soundtrack on vinyl. The rest was all action figures.

[Senor JabbaJohnL]

Damn, you were even younger than I thought when you started posting at The other site. For some reason I thought you were 15 or 14 at the very outside.

Ironically, you were probably older when you saw the OT than many of us. I saw the OT films when I was 3, 6, and 9. And my love of the films was definitely informed by the toys almost as much as the movies themselves. We didn't have Home Video back then. You saw the film once(maybe twice if you were lucky). The rest was pure memory and imagination. Supplemented by those storybooks and 45 rpm records, illustrated picture books and the soundtrack on vinyl. The rest was all action figures.

I actually remember the purple-and-black look of the other site and posted on the forums before they were upgraded in 2001. I believe my first exposure to the site was Thanksgiving 1998 (when I was a week or so away from turning 9) following a link to see the illegal previews of the Episode I figures. Now I'm 23.

I remember waiting until April 2000 for TPM to come to VHS - I had seen it in the theater six times by that point, but still. Today's four-month DVD/Blu-ray/download turnaround is crazy.

As an aside, I keep seeing the thread's title out of the corner of my eye and thinking it's "The Gentleman's Star Wars." Bringing to mind the image of Obi-Wan and Vader wearing top hats and monocles and politely discussing their differences.

[vynsane]

As an aside, I keep seeing the thread's title out of the corner of my eye and thinking it's "The Gentleman's Star Wars." Bringing to mind the image of Obi-Wan and Vader wearing top hats and monocles and politely discussing their differences.

and that's how fan-made films are born.

i was born the year star wars originally came out. in all honesty, my fandom was nostalgia-based, and really started in earnest when hasbro started up with the toys again and i discovered the novels (around the time the Jedi Academy trilogy was released - i read the Thrawn trilogy as a prequel).

[anarky]

Damn. I'm having a hard time thinking about the subject at hand. Foolery's about a year older than me, his daughter is 15, and her step dad's in his 20s? Nothing against your side of the equation, but I wouldn't be surprises to get a call from Springer. And I don't mean the Triple Changer.

Okay, that might be extreme, but, damn.