the vynsane asylum

vynsane wrote:

so I had absolutely no clue about the "twist" which I both loved and hated for different reasons I can go into later.

i would say i genuinely enjoyed the twist and had no problem with it. remember, we can also use the spoiler tags...

True...

The reveal that the Mandarin was just an elaborate smokescreen was an amazing use of misdirection I didn't see coming (and I'm sure most people didn't either), but at the same time I was really looking forward to the Mandarin as an epic villain - someone truly evil and sinister who wasn't superpowered in some way, but could still be a real threat to Iron Man. The mirroring of Bin Laden was a bit too heavy, but that is a minor quibble. Marvel did a great job at keeping this secret, as well as downplaying Killian as a big villain.

While the final battle was quite epic, but if Stark had remote access to his other suits, why did he spend 1/2 the flick with a semi-functional prototype?

The clusterfuck of an epilogue. "I fixed Pepper. Oh, by the way. The shrapnel is gone. You know, the reason I created an elaborate new technology so it wouldn't kill me and is the reason I had the ability to become Iron Man (and was previously implied/stated couldn't be removed)? Well, I decided to have it removed. kthxbye"

Diabolical wrote:While the final battle was quite epic, but if Stark had remote access to his other suits, why did he spend 1/2 the flick with a semi-functional prototype?

it seems to me the unmanned armors weren't terribly effective in the final battle, just enough of a distraction for tony to take on killian without the other extremizombies interfering. they were also each uniquely specialized for certain tasks, while the mk42 seems to be the next iteration of the all-purpose armor since the mk7 from Avengers. it can also be hand-waved that he couldn't connect to the JARVIS server securely enough to call another armor to him or something.

Diabolical wrote:The clusterfuck of an epilogue. "I fixed Pepper. Oh, by the way. The shrapnel is gone. You know, the reason I created an elaborate new technology so it wouldn't kill me and is the reason I had the ability to become Iron Man (and was previously implied/stated couldn't be removed)? Well, I decided to have it removed. kthxbye"

honestly, it makes no sense that they could never fix his heart. but it doesn't mean he can't still be iron man. they did this in the comics, even, where they "fixed" him and then found another reason for him to "need" the armor yet again. one story that comes to mind is when a techno-virus destroyed his central nervous system and he needed the suit in order to even move. more recently he wiped his brain clean when he was on the run from norman osborne (as iron patriot) and now the arc reactor is not only his heart, but his brain as well. also, it's been theorized that what he means by "sorted pepper out, and figured... why stop there?" meant he fixed the anomaly in extremis and used it to heal his wounds as the shrapnel was removed. of course, were that the case, they could have been a little more blatant about it, but, whatevs... maybe they're saving that reveal for a future movie.

again, just because he doesn't need the arc reactor anymore doesn't mean he won't use it in future armors. we know from in-universe examples at this point that the suits are independently powered - the war machine/iron patriot suit works without rhodey having an arc reactor embedded in his chest, as did the mk42 when it saved pepper in the mansion attack, and all the 'specialty' suits from the end of the movie. so he literally doesn't need the arc reactor in his chest in order to continue to be iron man. he says as much at the end as he throws the reactor into the ocean.

Saw it. I liked it as much as the second one. But not as much as the first or as much as Avengers.

What's the reasonable expectation of Ran, JJReason, Senor Lindquist, Slicker and El Chuxter (and anyone else who still frequents here) seeing this anytime soon so we can dispense with the spoiler tags and get down to the nitty gritty of it all.

First off, I lean towards being displeased with the twist. More on that below.
And Jon Favreau is hella fat. Damn, son, a little Jenny Craig.
And I was hoping for a little more substance in the Post-Credit scene.

I'll admit I laughed in the moment during the twist reveal. But the big reason I disliked is because they advertised in the trailers something entirely different than what actually was. It's one thing to be vague in trailers. It's another to construct them deliberately in a fashion which suggests something the movie is not. And secondly, it does a disservice to the potential of what Iron Man's arch enemy could and should be. Yes, Killian turns out to be the "Mandarin" at the end, but it's not really the same. I feel like Shane Black got too focused on how the comic Mandarin got started (as a yellow peril caricature) and less on how badass he's been developed over the decades. It just felt like a rug pull.

On the plus side, I absolutely loved they gave Tony PTSD, which is a real and serious condition. It's almost like the modern equivalent of alcoholism in terms of being a hero's weakness for the character. I was very impressed with that.
I loved Killian and his henchmen as credible threats to Iron Man. Especially after the anticlimactic showdown in IM2 with Whiplash. Guy Pearce was great. As was James Badge Dale.

I agree with Diabolocal about the pat 'kthxbye' wrap up at the end. It didn't seem to fit in with the character arc of the film.

I was also slightly confused about Maya Hansen's motivation in the film. Why did she show up on Tony's doorstep moments before the attack to WARN them about the attack if her purpose was to--uhmm kidnap Pepper--I think? Other than being part of the original comic's Extremis story, her character seemed superfluous in the film. Maybe it will make more sense in subsequent viewings.

Also, why did the dead soldier's mother in Tennessee have an extensive dossier about the Extremis project, including pics of other soldiers in the program? And why would she be giving it to Savin? Wouldn't he/they (AIM) already have that info? It just seems like a convenient coincidence in the plot.

And this is a very very minor pet peeve, but no mention whatsoever of any attempt to get ahold of any other Avengers for help. Especially since this is a post-Avengers film. I know that comes off fanboyish, but even something as small as saying "Cap and Widow and Hawkeye would love to come help, but they're on an op in North Korea pantsing Kim Jong Un. Sorry" would've worked.

The reason he couldn't call up his Armor Army for half the film was because JARVIS was offline and also because his workshop was buried under tons of rubble and the cleaning crew was clearing the wreckage (as JARVIS eventually points out).

And I'm curious, the terrorist in the first film was part of "the ten rings" and the Mandarin's broadcasts were preceded by the ten ring symbol. Does this imply Aldrich Killian was behind the original terrorists in the first film? I mean, clearly Stane contracted them to kidnap Tony, but was Killian aware of that plot? Something that crossed my mind.

RoIIo Tomassi wrote: What's the reasonable expectation of Ran, JJReason, Senor Lindquist, Slicker and El Chuxter (and anyone else who still frequents here) seeing this anytime soon so we can dispense with the spoiler tags and get down to the nitty gritty of it all.

For the record, spoilers for this or any other movie or tv show don't bother me at all.

I've only seen part of one of the Iron Man movies. It was probably the first one.

I still haven't seen #2. It's one of those I bought, then Mrs. A keeps telling me to wait to watch because she wants to see it, but she never seems to be in the mood for it.

For the record, I've given up and started watching these movies anyway, but there is a bit of a backlog.

RoIIo Tomassi wrote:I'll admit I laughed in the moment during the twist reveal. But the big reason I disliked is because they advertised in the trailers something entirely different than what actually was. It's one thing to be vague in trailers. It's another to construct them deliberately in a fashion which suggests something the movie is not.

i find it funny that you were upset about the trailer being misleading, when we have so many complaints here and elsewhere that trailers give too much away/show all the good parts.

RoIIo Tomassi wrote:And secondly, it does a disservice to the potential of what Iron Man's arch enemy could and should be.

that's more of the general sentiment, it seems, among die-hard comic/iron man fans.

Also, why did the dead soldier's mother in Tennessee have an extensive dossier about the Extremis project, including pics of other soldiers in the program? And why would she be giving it to Savin? Wouldn't he/they (AIM) already have that info? It just seems like a convenient coincidence in the plot.

good point. i'm more bothered by the fact that the kid didn't have a southern accent, though.

And this is a very very minor pet peeve, but no mention whatsoever of any attempt to get ahold of any other Avengers for help. Especially since this is a post-Avengers film. I know that comes off fanboyish, but even something as small as saying "Cap and Widow and Hawkeye would love to come help, but they're on an op in North Korea pantsing Kim Jong Un. Sorry" would've worked.

or even an aside to the helicarrier where a random SHIELD agent says something to the effect that they're trying to locate tony but aren't receiving his transponder or whatever.

And I'm curious, the terrorist in the first film was part of "the ten rings" and the Mandarin's broadcasts were preceded by the ten ring symbol. Does this imply Aldrich Killian was behind the original terrorists in the first film? I mean, clearly Stane contracted them to kidnap Tony, but was Killian aware of that plot? Something that crossed my mind.

he was either in on it or was just using their iconography in this plan to make it more personal to tony.

I can sympathize with the hardcore fans who are more than upset. Consider that fans had been expecting a Mandarin/Iron Man throwdown since the first film, so expectations had risen in five years. When the first one came out and Stane was the villain, everyone was like 'cool, but hopefully Mandarin will be in the sequel.' Then the weird Crimson Dynamo/Whiplash amalgam was in the sequel and everyone was like 'aw shit yo! They're saving Mandarin for the third one!' Then we find out Mandarin is in part 3 and Ben Kingsley is playing him and he looks and acts totally badasss in every trailer. And then....Pbbbbblllltt.....Psyche!!!

And somebody else pointed out that if you did that with any other comic nemesis pairing
Like Joker/Batman or Captain America/Red Skull or Spider-Man/Green Goblin etc there would be superfly TNT Guns of Navarone type bitching going on. Moreso than even what's going on here.


One of the guys on CBR made a comment about Pepper Potts being Red She Hulk and I laughed because I literally thought the EXACT same thing at that scene.

RoIIo Tomassi wrote:What's the reasonable expectation of Ran, JJReason, Senor Lindquist, Slicker and El Chuxter (and anyone else who still frequents here) seeing this anytime soon so we can dispense with the spoiler tags and get down to the nitty gritty of it all.

I've wanted to see it but have been busy - hopefully Friday evening I'll see it. Semi-spoiler from someone who hasn't seen it and doesn't know much: I do know people nerds are pissed off at a twist that involves the Mandarin, but don't know what it is. Other than that, I've heard both good and mediocre things about it so far.

It was no screaming hell. Having never been an avid reader of Iron Man I was "ho hum" about the twist. The only awesome in the whole movie was the suits in action, as you might hope when you spend money to see any Iron Man movie. My ability to suspend disbelief was completely worn out & long left behind by the time the initialattack on Tony's place with the attack helicopters was taking place and folks were surviving.

Scarcely, by the barest of bare margins, worth the money.

anarky wrote:So, no Mandarin? What a fucking cop-out.

Technically, there was. It ended up being Aldrich Killian. But the entire Trailer Campaign to get people in the theaters was a giant "Fuck You" in the end.

Is it too soon to start making movie villains North Korean instead of middle eastern? Would have helped the name Mandarin at least have some vague form of relevance.

jjreason wrote:Is it too soon to start making movie villains North Korean instead of middle eastern? Would have helped the name Mandarin at least have some vague form of relevance.

Eh, is anyone actually afraid of the North Koreans? At least Middle Easterners have actually done harm to us - repeatedly. The North Koreans are basically just waving their tiny little dicks at us.

I saw it yesterday and really enjoyed it. My biggest complaints were that I wish there was more Rhodey as the Iron Patriot, since that design is pretty fucking awesome, and a better glimpse of the many, many suits that show up for the final battle, since they kind of just show up, some of them do some cool stuff, and then they all get destroyed before you can even tell what color they are. I mean, it's called IRON MAN, I want to see some damn Iron Man suits! Other than those points, I liked it. The action scenes otherwise were very well done - I thought the airplane sequence was pretty nerve-wracking, even though it seems every movie is required by law to have an airplane sequence these days. I think the funniest part was the henchman telling Tony he wanted to quit anyway.

The design of the Mark 42 did seem to be weirdly flesh colored in the promotional images, but it looked fine onscreen.

As for the Mandarin, I didn't mind the twist, but I also didn't have a prior attachment to or even much knowledge of the character. Ben Kingsley was entertaining at both the creepy and goofy sides of the role, so whatever.

Oh, and I figured that Tony's anxiety about New York was a good enough reason not to have the other Avengers here. Though I did appreciate the final scene, as if he's opening back up to joining them again.