What do you danged furners think...

[Antropov]

All the shit with delegates and superdelegates and whatever the fuck else they have is too confusing to even try to understand, so I won't.

As a future civics teacher, you piss me off.

He and McCain seem to be the most willing to work with members of both parties, while none of the others do, which is troubling and won't get anything done (just look at the last seven years).

That's what they all say. Of course they're gonna tell you that now. That's what you want to hear. As soon as they get in office, though, and have to begin reaping the seeds they sewed during their campaign run ("Oh, that's right. Merck donated a million dollars to me during my campaign. Well, the dems aren't gonna be happy about this, but make sure you decrease Medicare benefits in order to further line the pockets of big medicine. kthxbai lolz.")

And perhaps I'm being glib, but didn't Lincoln have very little experience when he was elected, or at least national experience? Call me crazy, but I think he did pretty damn well.

The Link was a senator also (form IL, too, if I'm not mistaken). I would say its very tough to compare politics in the mid-19th century to the current geopolitical climate (boom! billion dollar phrase, bitch!). Outside of extreme western Europe, we had little to do with anything outside of North and South America. Further, our issues on the home front were so dire that they superseded any need for the president to have some sort of Jeffersonian quality about him in terms of foreign policy. Lincoln's supposed* greatness comes from what he did here, not overseas.








*The guy was a crook.

[Slicker]

Where the hell is Cappy and what did you do with him?


What a dirty fucking mouth on you talking all that political shit. Maybe it's Tycho in disguise.

[Antropov]

Where the hell is Cappy and what did you do with him?

College education ftw!

What a dirty fucking mouth on you talking all that political shit.

I usually despise talking about politics. I have my opinions, you have yours. That's what's great about opinions. Unlike the other site, Anarky asked what everyone thought. Had this thread been started elsewhere, it would've began, "Tihs iz y my opinyin iz rite an this iz y u suk 4 not agreeing wiht it u faget o yes". Its a much more friendly atmosphere here, that's why I don't mind discussing it.

Maybe it's Tycho in disguise.

I can most definitely assure you that I am true-straight.

[Diabolical]

He and McCain seem to be the most willing to work with members of both parties, while none of the others do, which is troubling and won't get anything done (just look at the last seven years).

That's what they all say. Of course they're gonna tell you that now. That's what you want to hear. As soon as they get in office, though, and have to begin reaping the seeds they sewed during their campaign run ("Oh, that's right. Merck donated a million dollars to me during my campaign. Well, the dems aren't gonna be happy about this, but make sure you decrease Medicare benefits in order to further line the pockets of big medicine. kthxbai lolz.")

Hmmm...didn't Bush promise the same thing 3+ years ago?
Yeah, that turned out well.

[vynsane]

Outside of extreme western Europe, we had little to do with anything outside of North and South America.

i'd say that's the best way for us to go forward, except for getting rid of the "south" part. we should take care of ourselves and not police the entire world. we need to step back from turning everyone into a democracy - like what happened here over 200 years ago, if people are fed up with their government, let THEM revolt. we put hussein in power 30 years ago, and it bit us in the ass. when you do stupid things, you need to do an even stupider thing to undo it. if we hadn't intervened, yes, possibly the soviets would've gained a foothold in the region. but we all know from hindsight that the soviets were not really a threat. i'm sure the administrations in power in america during the cold war KNEW that. however, the best way to unite the populace is to have them scared of one outside enemy (supposedly). russians in the 50's/60's/70's/80's and now terrorists in the new millennium.

Further, our issues on the home front were so dire that they superseded any need for the president to have some sort of Jeffersonian quality about him in terms of foreign policy. Lincoln's supposed greatness comes from what he did here, not overseas.

the same holds true now. our economy is on the verge of collapse. our dollar is in the toilet. the rest of the world hates us. the best thing to do is to concentrate on making it better for our people. just by simply not trying to bully and police the rest of the world, we will win back favor in other countries. and in the meantime we can look at the real issues plaguing our nation. quite simply, we are NOT "the greatest nation" right now. there's no way that's possible when you see the problems we have to face.

[Antropov]

i'd say that's the best way for us to go forward, except for getting rid of the "south" part. we should take care of ourselves and not police the entire world.

In terms of policing, you're right. But there is no way in hell we can just ignore China and hope they go away.

we need to step back from turning everyone into a democracy - like what happened here over 200 years ago, if people are fed up with their government, let THEM revolt.

Word.

however, the best way to unite the populace is to have them scared of one outside enemy (supposedly).

As long as you're successful in getting everyone to be afraid. Dubya and his merry band of idiots are trying this right now with "the terrorists" and I don't know if we don't believe him or if he's just too dumb to pull it off, but it isn't working.

russians in the 50's/60's/70's/80's and now terrorists in the new millennium.

Its much easier to define "Russian" than it is "terrorist". We were actually afraid of the Russians during the Cold War, not the idea of "the Commies". That, IMO, is akin to being told to be afraid of "the terrorists", not a particular country that we can identify as "THE enemy". Look what happened when McCarthy attacked an idea like "communism". It turned into a wild goose chase that, in hindsight at least, is more or less a joke. Bush is essentially doing the same thing right now by calling all of these people "terrorists". You can define a "terrorist" in his terms about as easy as you can define a "communist" under McCarthy's.

quite simply, we are NOT "the greatest nation" right now. there's no way that's possible when you see the problems we have to face.

You obviously didn't see the State of the Union address. Bush said we were the greatest country in the world at least a dozen times. Why would he not tell the truth?

[vynsane]

In terms of policing, you're right. But there is no way in hell we can just ignore China and hope they go away.

ignore china about what? the only issue i know of is the huge amounts of carbon emissions. we'd have gone a long way to help assuage that problem if we actually ratified the kyoto pact. sure, the "reasons" behind us not doing so are the exemptions to china and other countries, but i believe in leading by example. the reaction of not ratifying it because other countries will get exemptions is tantamount to a three year old stomping around the house because her sister got more pudding. we ARE the largest producer of carbon emissions. if we were to take real steps to reduce this, it would be an immense reduction.

Its much easier to define "Russian" than it is "terrorist". We were actually afraid of the Russians during the Cold War, not the idea of "the Commies". That, IMO, is akin to being told to be afraid of "the terrorists", not a particular country that we can identify as "THE enemy". Look what happened when McCarthy attacked an idea like "communism". It turned into a wild goose chase that, in hindsight at least, is more or less a joke. Bush is essentially doing the same thing right now by calling all of these people "terrorists". You can define a "terrorist" in his terms about as easy as you can define a "communist" under McCarthy's.

true. i feel like they're using it as this nebulous enemy, one you should be MORE afraid of than any other, because it could be anyone. they might as well replace "terrorists" with "ninjas". they're apparently just as deadly and impossible to catch.

You obviously didn't see the State of the Union address. Bush said we were the greatest country in the world at least a dozen times. Why would he not tell the truth?

unfortunately i did watch it. i felt it was my civil duty to mentally record how retarded our current president is. the "greatest nation" was definitely over-used, but didn't compare to my favorite bit "themuricalofamurica".

[kidhuman]

Dont make me move this to the Pit, oh wrong place.

I think he meant Korea, not China Vyn

[Ran]

The problem I have with the Kyoto Protocol in that each country measures its emmisions differently. I don't have the current figures with me, but the UK and France produce way more than they admit to. They need to standardize the methods used in measuring the emmisions before it is ratified. I'm all for saving the polar bears, but lets make sure the other countries fess up to what they are doing, too.

[vynsane]

The problem I have with the Kyoto Protocol in that each country measures its emmisions differently. I don't have the current figures with me, but the UK and France produce way more than they admit to. They need to standardize the methods used in measuring the emmisions before it is ratified. I'm all for saving the polar bears, but lets make sure the other countries fess up to what they are doing, too.

well, in a perfect world everyone would just simply agree to make it better as opposed to saying "i'll do it if YOU will..." but regardless, even if it did get ratified, i'm sure we'd have loopholes for the worst offenders in our country and nothing would actually get any better. so what the fuck does it matter?

at the end of the day the best thing to do is obviously invest in alternative power sources like wind, solar, hydroelectric. our dependence on oil is just retarded. we're the smartest nation on the planet. we invented everything. we can figure this out. unfortunately we've got oil barons in the white house who have been cock-blocking clean energy initiatives for 8 years.

[Antropov]

I did mean China, but not in terms of them being some sort of military adversary. Speaking from a purely economical stand point, we need to be on the best terms possible with them right now, since we're going in opposite directions on the world scale. It just seems to me that the first time they ask us to jump for them, we do so. I also think that whoever takes over as president should seriously consider moving our "quick strike" bases out of China as a tip of the cap to them. They have made no secret about their disdain for them, but Dubya keeps them (in what I can only imagine would be his words) "to have quick strike capabilities against the terrorists in case the terrorists begin engaging in terrorist activities and we need to strike quickly against the terrorists."

[Antropov]

well, in a perfect world everyone would just simply agree to make it better as opposed to saying "i'll do it if YOU will..." but regardless, even if it did get ratified, i'm sure we'd have loopholes for the worst offenders in our country and nothing would actually get any better. so what the fuck does it matter?

Everyone wants a clean planet, but nobody wants it if its going to cost them money.

at the end of the day the best thing to do is obviously invest in alternative power sources like wind, solar, hydroelectric. our dependence on oil is just retarded. we're the smartest nation on the planet. we invented everything. we can figure this out. unfortunately we've got oil barons in the white house who have been cock-blocking clean energy initiatives for 8 years.

You watched the state of the union, vyn. Bush was talking about hydrogen cars. Just because he's done nothing pertaining to alternative energy in his first seven years in office doesn't mean he's not going to make up for it in his last year. That's totally possible. This was not a ruse to make the democrats happy so they'll scratch his back on the economic stimulus plan. He are serious. o yes

[Ran]

He was the governor of Texas. What do you expect? It looks like more car manufacturers are starting to pump out Hybrids. Did you guys see that last car show? Hummer of all companies is producing a hybrid.

The Air Force base out here is currently building the world’s largest solar power generation station. It's funny how some things don't make national news. This won't be the answer everywhere, but it would work in the southwest states. I've heard California is having problems with those wind powered generators. They can be noisy and are killing birds. They need to do something out here because the water levels of Lake Mead are dropping. The flow of water from Lake Mead goes through Hoover Dam. IT isn't quite "dangerously close" but the generators in Hover Dam do have a required minimum depth. The engineers there are replacing some equipment to make it more efficient and able lower the minimum.

What gets me is for the 15 minutes I listen to the local radio in the morning, there was an ad pushing voters to ask the candidates about "clean coal".

I also think that whoever takes over as president should seriously consider moving our "quick strike" bases out of China as a tip of the cap to them.

We have bases in China? Where?

[anarky]

Everyone so quickly forgets that one of the first things Duh-bya did in office was try to start a war with China. This was before 9-11. They captured a spyplane, and then released the crew shortly afterwards, but Bush kept demanding an apology.

He may act dumb, but he knows the president does well during a war. And he got the best one he could hope for: against a nebulous foe that can never be proven to be defeated.

[Antropov]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe we have a couple in central China. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but we were discussing them in my Pacific Rim class last semester.

Perhaps they were the ones in Kryghstan? Either way, China feels it is a sort of "soft containment". As though we're monitoring them by having these bases there. Regardless, if China so much as thinks that, we should be kissing their beanbags in every way possible and get them out if they don't like them.